In this episode of Stop the Noise, Susan Tatum speaks with Frank Wood, a former Chief Security Officer and now an independent consultant specializing in risk management and crisis response. Frank shares his firsthand insights on engaging with C-level executives, building trust as a consultant, and the critical distinction between being seen as a vendor versus a trusted advisor. If you're struggling to get past gatekeepers and start meaningful conversations with decision-makers, this episode is packed with valuable strategies.
Notes from the Show
Building Relationships Over Selling: Executives are more likely to engage when consultants focus on conversations rather than immediate sales pitches.
Finding the Right Decision Maker: Security, risk, and crisis management responsibilities vary across organizations, so identifying the right contact is crucial.
The Power of Referral & Trust: The most successful consultants build credibility by being helpful - even if they’re not the right solution today.
Understanding Executive Priorities: Decision-makers focus on urgent issues, but consultants can add value by helping them distinguish between urgency and long-term importance.
Becoming a Partner, Not Just a Vendor: The best consultants help executives craft business cases and solutions rather than just selling a service.
Quotes:
“The best consultants I’ve worked with weren’t trying to sell me something; they were trying to understand my challenges.”
“If a consultant tells me, ‘I can’t help you, but I know someone who can,’ that builds instant trust and credibility.”
What’s Inside:
The challenge of locating who to talk to in larger companies.
Refining the approach: conversations matter.
The Vendor vs. The Partner.
Determining the difference between urgent and important.
Mentioned in this Episode:
Transcribed by AI Susan Tatum 0:38
Hi everybody. Welcome back to stop the noise. We're glad you're here. And today's conversation is another in the series that I'm doing about getting through to C level executives and engaging them in creating relationships with them. And today I'm talking with Frank Wood, who is the owner of Hawkeye resilience advisors, also a former chief security officer, so he's been on the he's been on both sides of the table. And I'm really happy to have you here, Frank. Thank you, and welcome to the show.
Frank Wood 1:12
Thank you so much for having me, Susan. I really appreciate the invitation.
Susan Tatum 1:16
I have lots of questions on my pieces of paper here for you, based on we talked about this briefly in another call, and you've got so much great information to share. But before we get into that, for folks who may be hearing about you for the first time, could you give us just a quick story about your background and what you're doing now?
Frank Wood 1:34
Certainly, Well, I am the owner of Hawkeye resilience advisors. We're an independent consulting firm that focuses on risk management strategies, really addressing the physical security, crisis management, business continuity to strengthen a company's ability to prepare but also respond to critical events. This firm was born out of 17 years within the General Electric Company, a stint in the Navy Nuclear Propulsion Program, as well as some federal government contracting and agencies before that. So taking all of that experience and various aspects of security and operations made me want to help others, and that's why I'm here today, and just trying to continue that journey, not only for myself, but really bring everyone else all along for the ride?
Susan Tatum 2:22
Well, it certainly sounds like you know what you're doing when it comes to security and risk management and all that good stuff that we need. Well, quick question here are chief security officers, your target audience now that they would be your buyers for what you're doing with with Hawkeye?
Frank Wood 2:39
That is a wonderful question, Susan, and typically, I'd love this give you a resounding Absolutely. But within most industries, the areas of risk and resilience and crisis sometimes sit in those three or four different disciplines. That could be within the Chief Human Resources Officer, it could be in the COO or even finance department. So it is a scattering of responsible entity that have to perform this throughout an organization. And I've found that it transfers periodically, depending on who holds the hot potato that year, that quarter.
Susan Tatum 3:17
Is it fair to say that companies are different? That's no surprise, Susan, but there it could be that if you can't say risk management is always in this department and security is always in this department, you have got to figure that out.
Frank Wood 3:30
That is correct.
Susan Tatum 3:31
Okay, okay, that's part of the game, isn't it? Who do I talk to?
Frank Wood 3:34
it is, it is, and that is some of the challenges. To call it the barrier to entry. Is just finding out, to try to have an introduction or have a discussion with just to discover not just what the challenges are or the risks that they're facing today, but rather, who's the right person to talk to, who are the decision makers, but also who are the responsible authorities to make those decisions, or that are ultimately responsible for those programs?
Susan Tatum 4:01
Yeah, I wish it were easier than it actually is. So when you were a CSO, what made you actually take a call or have a conversation with a consultant? New consultant?
Frank Wood 4:13
That's a great question, and I've both accepted and also deferred many phone call the one item that typically tipped the hat to say, I want to follow up and speak with this individual again, was that they didn't want to sell me something within the first 30 seconds. They just wanted to have a conversation. Let me get to know you. Let me get to know your organization. There may be something that I can do to help. That's usually what tipped me off to say, someone's here to help me rather than sell me something. And I know they go hand in hand, but it's the approach that makes the difference.
Susan Tatum 4:47
yeah, because if somebody comes at you trying to sell you something, it's like they've already decided what you need, and you haven't even talked to them.
Frank Wood 4:54
They are they are working in transactional mode, and they're trying to share. Share or sell a product, product slash service, versus discussing problems that then lead to the discussion of a variety of solutions, and those solutions may or may not actually include their portfolio that they're trying to promote. I understand that's what I do today, and that's what everyone else is trying to do also, but it's not just a pointed conversation. Rather, it's, let's lay all the tools out on the table. Sure, a sledgehammer can work, but you probably just need a little tack hammer to put that little Brad back in the wood.
Susan Tatum 5:29
Yeah. So what are the what are the top things that you found that executives, chief security officers, and the other executives that you've dealt with? What are the things that are what are they focused on in these high pressure roles?
Frank Wood 5:44
The biggest answer to that is it depends on the problem that they're facing, that day, that week, that quarter. And so in having the conversations with any of those individuals as the proverbial insider or someone from the outside trying to work your way in. It's understanding. What are those plates? What are the struggles and challenges that are being faced, not just that are on their doorstep, but is there something else that's coming down the road that needs to be addressed
Susan Tatum 6:15
that's interesting? How do you do that?
Frank Wood 6:17
Conversations?
Susan Tatum 6:18
Right?
Frank Wood 6:19
How do we start is valuable. So let's jump right into and say, what is the 99% question that everyone asks? What keeps you up at night? But that's such an open ended question, right? What's keeping you up at night that you don't currently have a viable solution for or that you're not comfortable in taking the next step, and so you can't keep it such a white paper level. It's have a directed orientation to then again, get to that. Here's a set of problems, but then let's talk about the potential solutions that might be there. So you need to start that conversation and start to roll a snowball, one hand at a time, so eventually you build it up to have something that's large enough to act upon.
Susan Tatum 6:58
Fair enough get so what's going through my mind is, how do you have a hard time imagining that someone that's at the chief security level of a company like GE or one of its companies, would take the time with a consultant that says, let's just talk about what's going on and what You're struggling with. So I what I advise with consultants when they are approaching someone like this is to have something that well, just to say, here's what I hear CSOs say they are struggling with. Is this something that you're struggling with? Or can I get a reality check from you? Like, how do you get in the door first.
Frank Wood 7:41
That is an excellent way to approach it, and I've had that used previously. But the other side of that coin is again, think of it as an investment of time. Some of the best consultants that I have worked with, or those that I actually have never provided a purchase order to or an engagement, but I still talk to them today, and I refer their services to probably four or five other people, because I didn't have a specific solution set that they could act upon. But it's because they acted with that genuine concern or the understanding of what my problems were at the time, and they were there to be of service. They acted, and they presented themselves, not only their company, but themselves as a partner in the solution. And so again, it goes that conversation of not just selling the product, it's the understanding the problems, understanding the challenges, and just not even saying, Well, hey, that's great. I see you have a hole. I have dirt, and I want to help you fill that in. It didn't come to that. It was that teasing out of the conversation. And again, the best engagements that the long term relationships were those that didn't bite or didn't throw the hook into the water too soon, because they knew they didn't have the solution at the time, they said, I understand. I can't help you today, but hey, that one thing you said, let me refer you to somebody else, because I want to help you.
Susan Tatum 9:03
I would say that's instant trust and credibility because you said, or the consultant said, I don't have the answer, but I know someone who does
Frank Wood 9:12
Yes. I work that similar analogy to you go to a surgeon to say, I think I need surgery. They evaluate you. And they say, I don't believe you do right now, but when you do, I will absolutely take care of you. So what that consultant, surgeon, whatever they've done, has said, I'm not going to get a paycheck from you today, but I will make sure that you're taken care of until that time when you need my services occur. I am not going to try to force that conversation on your plate today, because I know you don't have the appetite. So let's deal with your issues that you're having today, so that when you are experiencing a problem where I my product, my service, can help. You're the one giving me a phone call. I don't have to call you back
Susan Tatum 9:54
exactly because you were upfront from the beginning. You didn't try to do. Something that you weren't really prepared to do. You mentioned the difference between or you mentioned looking for a partner instead of a vendor.
Frank Wood 10:08
Yes.
Susan Tatum 10:09
Can you talk a little bit more about the distinction between the two?
Frank Wood 10:11
Sure. So I would classify it in two sides of the same coin. One is the product or service offer. It's very transactional. You have a problem, I have a solution, and they hand it to you. Here you go. My purchase order. Accompany your check, and I'll be on my way. Very easy, cut and dry. The second side, where I put the call it the upper echelon consultant, the individuals that are going to get the phone calls and not have to call others, and that's the partner or the advisor, and that's why you're coming in. These are the individuals that will have for me, with me, helped write the business case, right? A lot of these projects need funding, so let me help you answer the mail and help you discuss this with your stakeholders. Let me help you put together that return on investment where we've seen, within the industry, within the products. What are the savings versus the cost? Everything at the cost right? Then we have to acknowledge it, but they're with you. It's not just, Well, here I give you the numbers again. Clap hands, dealers, choice. Walk away. It's let me help you. We're in this together. It's a partner model. It's a win, win model, rather than just putting it back on the CSO or the CHRO, or whoever has to ultimately be responsible, onto their plane give them another task.
Susan Tatum 11:25
I think what I hear you're saying is that this is getting a conversation started before there's an actual opportunity like that hasn't been budgeted yet.
Frank Wood 11:35
Absolutely, and most of the engagements where I have been involved in are usually self developed. These are the things that the initiative was taken by the deciding authority of the person hiring the consultant that there's a need. So let's try to get the budget and resources to perform the services, rather than just being told to do it.
Susan Tatum 11:56
So when you were a CSO or as a consultant, as you are approaching these folks? Are you finding that people at that level are looking for a solution before they're not going to the board or who or whoever and saying, I got this problem. Here's, I just need this amount of money there they are engaging with consultants before that, the advisor type of consultants, and not the vendor type of consultants, to help, to help craft what the solution is, and then also craft the business case and how they're going to sell it internally. Is, is that fair to say
Frank Wood 12:31
that is fair to say Susan and I would expand a little bit to say, remember how we started this off, and that security or risk management or business continuity. A lot of those disciplines don't necessarily reside under a specialist or a specialty function. They could reside under the Chief Human Resources Officer role. They don't deal with that every day or again, it changes from company to company. So you have an Executive leader that comes from company A and the company B, and all of a sudden they're saddled with additional responsibilities. So they understand that there's a risk, there's a challenge that they need to solve. So that's great. They understand that there's an issue, but to take that next step, that's where the challenge really comes in, because it's an area that is not necessarily recognizing they need someone to help them navigate through that.
Susan Tatum 13:19
Do you also find that some of the executives that you might be working with or attempting to work with don't have the ability to talk at a business level, rather than, I'm gonna say, at a technical, technology level. I mean, I have seen circumstances where they struggle with now I gotta sell this internally, but I've gotta speak the language of the CEO, or the CFO, or whomever. Is that part of your he's nodding for people that can't see him. Is that part of what you would consider part of the consultant's job in helping with
Frank Wood 13:55
absolutely it goes down to being able to translate. And I would take that both directions, either trying to translate the technical into the business jargon, dollars, head count, short term, long term returns on investment, capital expenditures, but also the other way around too, and helping those executives, decision makers, influencers, to talk about whatever the potential solution set looks like. And that could be manufacturing. It could be additional head count per talent acquisition, whatever it might be, but being able to link those two and answer salient questions at a comfortable depth. On other side,
Susan Tatum 14:35
I would imagine that there's also, when you go with the security part of it and technology, that there's an understandable lack of understanding by other executives about what this problem could become if there's something that we need that I mean, what is it that you're protecting us against? What could happen if we have a security breach? The understanding that, to me, would be. Be part of understanding the why this needs to be done
Frank Wood 15:02
Exactly. And I think it also comes to being able to hear, as you put those industry trends, what is it out there? That's local, that's regional, regional, that is global. To say, here's what others are seeing. Here's how it has impacted others. So it hasn't even gone internal yet, right? But here's what's happening, and here's our concrete examples then to follow up, and here's one of our vulnerabilities. So let's translate that. Why? Why are investigations important? Why is it important to have a separation of duties? Because 3% of a typical company's gross revenue is lost to fraud or other things that can be managed. 3%
Susan Tatum 15:49
that can be a lot,
Frank Wood 15:50
that's a lot of margin for a lot of different companies. But I didn't come up with that number that came out of industry benchmarking and studies and local think tanks to international law enforcement. But then take numbers that are applied and built by dedicated, smart, deep individuals and groups and apply it, versus a statement that says, I think we're at risk. Well, that can be dismissed. And when you have to invest money and time and people, where do you direct it, where you can earn more money on that, on those funds and resources, or where you can protect your revenue and margins, you have to pick one to the other or put in your back pocket and hope it doesn't slip away, but those are the kinds of questions that need to be juggled and discussed or influencing at those levels to really occur.
Susan Tatum 16:35
Yeah, what do you I've been thinking a lot lately about important versus urgent I visited, it just keeps coming up on my radar. And what has been your experience with getting things funded important, if they're important versus if they're urgent?
Frank Wood 16:53
That is a wonderful question, and very timely. I had a former supervisor mentor that really drilled those questions home in a lot of the similar conversations and oh, is it important or is it urgent? And it can be both. Has to be one of the although you'll look at various scales that will combine the two, but it's okay, but it's really about teasing out the emotional versus the rational urgency is typically driven by the short term or emotional response, versus the importance that says, how much will this be an issue that if I look back on it in two years, will it still matter
Susan Tatum 17:31
like if I ignored it for two years,
Frank Wood 17:33
if you ignored it, or if you took action, if you took action today and you spent a million dollars to deal with that urgent item, what's causing the sense of urgency? And typically, you put a million dollars in, what was that cost of investment? What's your opportunity cost? Because of that
Susan Tatum 17:50
interesting we keep finding and hearing that, especially in times like we're in now, of great change and economic uncertainty, that it's the urgent things that get funded and not the important necessarily the important things. But I think you're making a really interesting distinction, and this is helping my thinking on it, too. So thank you, Frank, the urge, the things that we say are urgent, is something that we are reacting to emotionally, because it feels, if I'm hearing you, because it feels like, oh my god, this is a real problem. We're going to fall apart if we don't deal with it. And so it requires a bit of a calm mind to sit down and think about, Is it really something we should invest in right now? Does that definitely correctly?
Frank Wood 18:37
Yes, yeah, you're you're on the right track from Frank's philosophy and thinking through things, it is about being able to pause and look and really ask the question, why is this urgent? And it may be urgent, and it may be something that has to be dealt with at this moment, but being able to have that rational conversation with yourself or with your stakeholders that includes above, below and side to side. Maybe this urgent problem is not it's actually important because it's a strategic item. It's an item that could cause the business to fail, versus it's urgent because it's at our doorstep. Oh, there's a lot of things at our doorstep. What makes that one more of an issue or a risk of vulnerability or right opportunity and the other ones, and that's the that, and that's the Juggle match that a lot of companies have to look at, is that risk versus opportunity could be one in the same.
Susan Tatum 19:31
What is the consultant's role in all of that?
Frank Wood 19:35
I think going back to the words that we have been using consultants role is to be that rational mindset, the individual that can bring the not the I believe statements, or I think statements, here's the evidence, here's the options that are available, here are their impacts, and here's some residual risk that's associated with all of them. And that's not just from a security standpoint, right? This is from a any decision makers that are working within HR or manufacturing or finance, there's always risk that's left
Susan Tatum 20:11
sales, yeah, there's always urgency, no matter where you are. Very I want to, we're about to run out of time, but I do want to move us. I do want to ask you about small to mid sized businesses versus your we've been talking about enterprise level pretty much, and I know that because we've had conversations about this, that you have some preference for the smaller businesses. What do you find is the difference between trying to get to a CSO at GE versus and communicating with them, helping them, versus someone in the same position, but at a smaller company.
Frank Wood 20:50
Yeah, the SMB world is interesting in that fact, the decision makers could be anybody, and that's because a lot of people in those in that group wear so many hats, and the authority for decision making is not always with the owner or the president, you know, so those individual departments have a lot more autonomy to make the decisions that need to be had. Here's your pot of money, run your ship. Tell me through the problem, go forth and prosper. So understanding, again, whom is the right decision maker is key, and that's because, from what I've heard from conversations with folks that work in the SMB world, small to medium business, is they don't have the luxury of having the overhead or the oversight of a corporate parent. They don't have the guarantees if they have a modest slip up, or a critical event that could be the end and be done, so that ownership is real and that sense of urgency turns to importance, that we can't miss this opportunity, because it may be the last deal that we do.
Susan Tatum 21:55
What about the pressure on the individual? Because they know that the risk in hiring consulting services is personal as well as professional, like if I hire this person and if they're not the right fit and they screw up, then I could lose my job. And that, I would think holds true regardless of the size of the company,
Frank Wood 22:15
I would agree, and I would also say the same goes through with a direct hire is very similar. So what are your risks with bringing in a consultant or a direct hire to do a similar item or not? It's around, where is that expertise and what is the niche that needs to be filled for that given? Call it scope of work.
Susan Tatum 22:37
Yeah, okay, well, I still I didn't get to all my questions, but we are running out of time, and I really do. Thank you for sharing all of that with us. It's very, very useful for any of the listeners that might want to follow up with you that have more questions specifically about what you're doing and how to get through a challenge. Is it okay if they contact you?
Frank Wood 22:58
Absolutely. I would love to have the conversation with anyone, just like we're having here today, it's really around having the conversation, and as I mentioned the beginning, helping others, and I'd say myself, to come along for the journey. There's a lot of individuals out there that have experienced a lot of different aspects, and I'm inquisitive to learn myself so they can go to Hawkeyeresilience.com, and all my contact information is there, and invite anyone to reach out at any time.
Susan Tatum 23:25
Okay, fantastic, and we'll put that in the show notes to make it easier. And thank you again. Frank, this has been a wonderful conversation.
Frank Wood 23:32
Same here. Susan, thank you again for the invitation and the Conversation. Really appreciate it.
Susan Tatum 23:36
Great day. Bye, bye.
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